The use of donor advised funds (DAFs) as a means for individuals to make philanthropic gifts continues to rise. Although donor advised funds make up only about 6% of overall giving, it is still the fastest-growing form of philanthropy today.
We here at DonorSearch recently partnered with Claire Axelrad, expert fundraiser, to produce a new flash class webinar all about DAFs and how to target them.
Claire has been a fundraising leader for over 30 years, raising millions of dollars for organizations such as San Francisco Food Bank and Jewish Family and Children’s Services. You’ve probably encountered her “mini online fundraising school,” Clairification, where she shares her invaluable insights about the ins and outs of fundraising.
Claire met with us to discuss donor advised funds, how they work, and how they can benefit your organization. Read on for Claire’s knowledge on donor advised funds and a video of the webinar itself.
WHAT IS A DONOR ADVISED FUND?
A donor advised fund account is a form of philanthropic giving in which an individual creates a “personal charitable savings account” and deposits their contributions of cash, stock, or other assets without choosing a specific recipient right away.
When the donor decides on a recipient, they can send the money from the DAF account to the nonprofit organization as a grant, (all while benefiting from an immediate tax deduction upon creation of the fund!).
Donor advised funds are created by the donor but are managed by other parties, such as a foundation or another sponsoring organization, who actively invest and manage the funds. A huge portion of these sponsoring organizations are charitable arms of financial-services firms, such as Vanguard and Schwab.
The donor can then continue to deposit assets into the DAF. While the sponsoring organization manages and oversees the fund, the donor advises them on when and where to make gifts.
DAFs have been an attractive choice for charitable giving for a while now because they offer a hefty deduction benefit and a flexible but relatively hands-off approach to giving.
HOW DO DONOR ADVISED FUNDS WORK?
If you’re unfamiliar with this form of giving, the concept behind donor advised funds may seem complicated. Plus, the terms and rules vary between accounts, sponsoring organization, and each year’s current IRS guidelines. However, the general steps stay consistent and can be explained simply. Use the graphic as reference, with each step corresponding to an arrow:
1. You create your donor advised fund and assign the organization who will help advise and ultimately manage your account. People tend to choose DAF administrators or financial services firms to help them manage their account and make sound philanthropic decisions. Many DAF accounts also allow donors to name successors or charitable beneficiaries.
2. Deposit assets to distribute to nonprofits in the future. Deposits in a DAF are irrevocable, but they can consist of any assets like cash, stocks, real estate, and artwork.
3. You immediately reap the benefits of the maximum tax deductions that the IRS allows. This may change from year to year so make sure to do your research and discuss it with an expert beforehand to know what to expect.
4. As you consider which charities you’d like to support, the funds in your donor advised fund are invested and grow tax-free through the management of the sponsoring organization.
5. Whenever you’re ready, recommend grants to be issued from your donor advised fund to eligible charities. Your fund’s administrator will research the charity you’re considering and offer advice on the most impactful ways to move forward.
If you help run a nonprofit, understanding the process of how donor advised funds are created and managed can help your team plan how to attract more of these high-impact donors.
DONOR ADVISED FUNDS: 5 BIG IDEAS
Seeking out new donors with DAF accounts can be a very smart move for your nonprofit. After all, their gifts are a great source of revenue that has already been slotted for charitable giving. You just need to focus on building your relationships and demonstrating your own impact to attract new DAF donors who will choose you as a grant recipient.
In our flash class webinar, Claire goes over how nonprofits and others can navigate donor advised funds to their advantage. Read on for five key takeaways:
1. DONOR ADVISED FUNDS ARE GROWING IN POPULARITY
In recent years, donor advised funds have become a major source of revenue for charitable organizations. More donors than ever have started to embrace donor advised funds as a strategic way to give back.
[In 2018], over $19 billion was distributed to charities through donor advised funds. The first six months of 2019 saw a 48% increase over the same period in 2018, and that’s per Fidelity Charitable, which is the largest sponsor of donor advised funds today.
2. DONOR ADVISED FUNDS ARE MORE RESILIENT
The assets in your donor advised fund are more protected in the long run than any other account. Donors are relieved to hear that during times of economic stress, the money they saved to give back to their community is still intact and growing.
There was a recent University of Pennsylvania study that showed that grantmaking from donor advised funds tends to be resilient during economic downturns. And that’s because people have put their money away solely for the purpose of philanthropy.”
3. BIG FINANCIAL FIRMS ARE ATTRACTED TO MANAGING DONOR ADVISED FUNDS
Donors appreciate that big financial services firms are starting to manage more and more of these accounts, because they can offer an unrivaled level of personal attention and support throughout the entire lifecycle of the fund.
In the 1990s, donor advised funds began to grow a lot in visibility and popularity because some of these big financial firms started to get into the business. And today, they are philanthropy’s fastest-growing vehicle, and the largest concentration of all foundation money is now in corporate donor advised funds like Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab, as well as community foundations.”
4. SOME OF THE MOST GENEROUS AND PHILANTHROPIC DONORS ARE LIKELY TO HAVE DONOR ADVISED FUNDS
A lot of individuals with donor advised funds tend to show a philanthropic mindset. If you are a nonprofit trying to see which of your donors might already have one of these accounts, try investing in a robust prospect research tool that can help you to quickly identify donors with a high affinity for giving.
The common characteristics of these donors are that they prioritize giving. They don’t give on a whim. They’re very serious about their philanthropy. That’s why they set up a formal charity distribution vehicle.”
Nonprofits report that donor advised fund gifts tend to be larger than typical contributions. Vanguard Charitable reports that their average donor advised fund gift is nearly $12,000. The Delegatee reports that their average gift is $4,200. Nonprofit Trust reports that their average donor advised fund has about 300,000 in its account. So these are multi, multimillion-dollar accounts, and people are thinking of it more as a philanthropic wallet.”
5. NONPROFITS SHOULD PROACTIVELY ENGAGE WITH THEIR DONOR ADVISED FUND SUPPORTERS
In order for your organization to receive a grant through a donor advised fund, the donor needs to recommend your charity to their sponsoring organization. This means you’ll need to focus on relationship-building! Be proactive with your engagement strategies and make sure these key donors know that they’re valued.
You really want to prioritize proactive engagement with donor advised fund donors. Consider them a special segment for cultivation. And this is really common sense because … they really are more serious about philanthropy and they really do make larger-than-average gifts. So you really want to think about, “how might we further engage these folks and really make them feel like valued members of our community?”
WATCH THE FLASH CLASS ON DONOR ADVISED FUNDS
Donor advised funds can certainly be a complicated topic for newbies, whether you’re a donor considering creating one or a charitable organization trying to attract donor advised grants from supporters. The ins and outs might be complicated, but Claire Axelrad knows her stuff.
In our flash class webinar on donor advised funds, Claire gives incredible insights for nonprofits on how to attract these donor advised funds as well as how to further engage these donors to build stronger long-term relationships.
Simply enter your details in the video player to get started learning more about DAFs.
Hey everyone, this is Jay Frost speaking to you. So happy to welcome you back. We have lots of extra drum beats for some reason, to another hard series of DonorSearch flash classes brought to you. Of course, of course, of course by DonorSearch. We won’t be talking about DonorSearch today, as those of you who have been here before now. So if you’re interested to learn more about the company that’s providing this platform for these discussions, you can do so over at donorsearch.net that’s also conveniently where I’ll tell you all about how you can get the content for today’s presentation in just a moment. But for those of you who have been here before, you know that this is a time where you can gather your troops in together around your favorite electronic device. Grab something nice to drink and make yourselves comfortable. If not, you’ll be happy to know this is where not only you’ll learn where you can get this content, but of course, uh, how you can interact with our speaker today.
So take a couple of minutes and make yourselves comfortable as I go through this bit of introduction and then of course and most importantly introduced to you today’s presenter. So we’ll begin of course with the content. As you can see in the screen, you can get the slides and the recording, the slides will come direct to you by email. But uh, of course, much of the real content, will be our discussion with our presenter. And so there is a recording of this session being made that will be posted to the flash class library, which you can find over at donorsearch.net under the resources tab as you see on your screen. And if you were to toggle down to that third item, Flash Class Library, you’ll see a list of all the sessions that have been held going back of course to um, to the beginning of this series, which we discovered by doing a little research this week is February of 2016 and we’ve had in fact 167.
Today’s 167 sessions reaching over 16,500 people. And we’re so happy to have you among those folks here today, uh, with an especially large class because of both our incredible presenter and this extraordinary topic. But you’ll find this recording right there, as I said, under the resources tab. Then you can search for it in the next couple of days and see this as well as all 166 other sessions right there. Now, uh, we have silenced your microphones. So if you have some, apparent squawking in the background, we won’t be hearing that. But that doesn’t mean we don’t want to hear from you. So if you take a look for a second to your Goto webinar control panel, often it’s at the right of your screen, but it may be to the left or top or bottom. And right there you’ll see a number of different ways to interact. We want to call your attention to a couple things.
Um, there will be a poll coming up. You’ll see that pop up. But most importantly, the questions tab, uh, that you can see that right there where the bouncing arrows, the questions tab is the place where we want to encourage you to go ahead and remark on any question, any comment at any time during the presentation. Just so we know that, uh, we can gather that up. And at the conclusion of the presentation today, we’ll share those with our presenter. And in fact, I want to encourage you to go ahead and take a look for that. Now, if you will, the questions tab and why don’t you go ahead and just post where you’re coming in from today. Let us know that you’re here. Let us know what city or state or country you’re from. Um, so we have Florida, Debbie Bloomfield hills. Uh, Hi Lisa.
Uh, Dallas, Cheryl, uh, we have somebody from Denver, Atlanta, St Louis, Florida, Kent, Connecticut. Hello there, Colorado um New York, Spartanburg, South Carolina, Boston, San Francisco, uh, and lots of San Francisco’s here today. Uh, Columbus, Newark, Las Vegas, Ottawa. Uh, it’s great to see you here. Albuquerque, Philly. Hello from Kansas City, Tacoma Park, Maryland. Uh, Miami, DC. We’ve got folks from all over the country and it looks like not only Canada but perhaps a few other countries as well. Glad to have you here today. Thanks so much for checking out that tab. Again, do use that to post questions and comments throughout and I’ll make sure to share those with our presenter at the conclusion of our presentation today. And so that’s a good place to move right to that. You know why you’re here. It’s all about the strategies to leverage donor advised fund philanthropy, which is of course one of the most important, uh, influencers right now in terms of philanthropy, um, in the United States.
And, and uh, and so we have the right person to talk about that subject with you. And that is Claire Axelrad and you may know about her already, but we want to take just a minute to introduce her in case you’re unfamiliar with her work and also just honor the contributions that she’s making, which are so substantial to our field. In fact, I’ll start with just the fact that she was just appointed this year. Chief fundraising coach at Bloomerang, our friends over there. Um, but she’s been doing this work for quite a while. In fact, for the last decade, uh, she has been serving and continues to serve as principal of clarification, you find clarification, uh, at on Web, at clarification.com that’s her firm, which focuses on philanthropy, not fundraising, coaching social benefit organizations to attract and sustain philanthropy. Great, great mission-based practice. She’s passed DOD of the San Francisco Food Bank, director of advancement of the Jewish, um, uh, coalition of San Francisco, director of development, marketing at Jewish family and children’s services in San Francisco, the peninsula, Miranda and Sonoma county’s DOD of the California School of professional psychology and Dod are the San Francisco Conservatory of Music. She’s a CFRE as you can see right there. And at JD who received her law degree from the University of San Francisco School of law, following receipt of her degree from the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton. She’s well known and religiously followed off for her blogs and her social media. You can find her and not only firstname.lastname@example.org but also charity clarity when my favorite Twitter accounts. So please join me in welcoming the one and only Claire Axelrad. Claire, we’re going to pass the baton to you right now.
Okay. Thank you so much for that lovely introduction Jay and thank you to everyone for joining us. I’m really excited to talk about this issue today because use of donor advised funds as a means for individuals to make philanthropic gifts is continuing to rise and the number of individual donor advised fund accounts has increased more than 200% in the past five years as an ever broader group of Americans are embracing them as a way to approach their philanthropy in a thoughtful, strategic way. That was once reserved only for the types of mega donors who could afford to set up private foundations. So I want you to pay attention to this because this is a big bucket full of potential gifts for your charity. And as you can see here on the screen, last year, over 19 billion was distributed to charities through donor advised funds. The first six months of 2019 so a 48% increase over the same period in 2018 and that’s per fidelity charitable, which is the largest sponsor of donor advised funds today.
Last week, Schwab charitable announced that its donor advised fund holders had issued 2.4 billion in grants in the most recent fiscal year, which was a 33% increase over the previous year. Now both of these funds but tribute, this accelerated pace of giving to changes in the federal tax law. So that’s one of the reasons that I’m talking about this today is there’s just been a steady increase every year for the past eight years. And there was a recent University of Pennsylvania study that showed that grant making from donor advised funds tends to be resilient during economic downturns. And that’s because people have put their money away solely for the purpose of philanthropy. So it’s there regardless of how their other portfolios are doing. And in my humble opinion, too few charities are paying attention to this large pool of money there. So I feel it’s really imperative to help you understand how they work and how they might be of benefit to your charity.
So again, why do I think this strategy is so important? Let me try to explain using an analogy from the game of monopoly. So if you’ve ever played monopoly and I, I imagine most of us have, you know about the free parking square and with you land on that square you get all the money that’s been left there by others who’ve had to park it there when they were assessed different fees and fines. A donor advised fund is a little bit like that. It’s money on the table and today I’m going to help you learn how to land intentionally on free parking and we’re going to talk about why a donor advised fund is really like a parking lot. But first before we get started, I’d love to get a little bit of a sense of your current knowledge and your current use of donor advised funds. So parents, if you could launch that poll, it’d be really great.
As we’re doing it clear, a couple of people noted that there is a bit of a popping or puffing. Perhaps it’s the distance of your microphone from you and so perhaps you can pull that up a little better. Uh, I think so. And I’ll let you know if, if we’re hearing that again. Okay. Um, we’re seeing those answers come through right now. We’re going to get, give everybody just a few more seconds. We’ve got quite a percentage of people voting so far. 68% have voted. If you haven’t voted, please do up to 70% and still counting up to 78 79.
Almost at the top. It looks like we’re slowing down a little bit. So at 82% of the vote we’ve got, um, let me say 12% are saying, what the heck is a da? So the donor advised fund, 77% are saying we get DAF money, don’t seek it out. 8% say we have strategies to proactively seek and 4% say we proactively seek and strategically cultivate.
Okay, great. Well Kudos to you. 4% and you 8% I’m, I’m hoping that this webinar will help everybody no matter what you answered and specifically there’s two things that you need to be aware of. You don’t want to leave money on the table and you want to offer the best service you can to your donors so no stone should ever be unturned in your quest for individual philanthropy. And let me talk a little bit about the donor advised funds. Stone donor advise funds were first created in the 1930s but there was no regulatory recognition of what they were until the tax reform act of 1969 and then in the 1990s donor advised funds began to grow a lot in visibility and popularity a lot because some of these big financial firms started to get into the business. And today philanthropy, they are philanthropy’s fastest growing vehicle and the largest concentration of all foundation money is now in corporate donor advised funds like fidelity, vanguard, Schwab as well as community foundations.
So lots of money on this table. Grants from donor advised funds account for more than 3% of all us giving. So that’s the money on the table. And then once you get it the money, you want to make sure that you are serving these particular donors. So well they’re going to want to give to you again. So I want to thank Jay again for that lovely introduction. I always put in this line because you know, you may be thinking, well why should I listen to Claire on this? And I, I’ve done this work a lot in five different um, jobs where I was the overall director of development. So I, I understand the challenges you face daily in your job. And I, I’ve been on the fundraiser side, but I’ve also set up and managed the donor advised fund program for five years. So I’ve been on the administrator side.
One of the charities I work for, we set up a donor advised fund. So let’s look at what we’re gonna learn today. I asked you to join me for a cup of coffee or tea and I, I am welcoming you to enjoy all of these beverages today where we’re going to talk about all of these four things. And Jay already showed us this, so I’m not going to stick on this. I want to go again to the donor advised fund as a parking lot. So what a donor advised fund is, is more or less a personable, a personal charitable savings account that is established by the donor for the sole purpose of supporting charities. So the donor has already made the decision to be philanthropic, which is huge, and they’ve not yet decided which charity is going to be the recipient of their large s. So they’re parking the money in the donor advised fund. So why might they want a parking lot for their philanthropic money? One reason is that they’ve had a windfall. It might be an unanticipated bonus or sale of stock in a family business. Lottery winnings, investing of stock options and inheritance. They want to use this money for charity.
But it’s more than they want to give to any charity in this particular year so they can make an irrevocable contribution to their donor advised fund now get all their tax benefits this year and the money in their fund will grow tax free, giving them even more to give out later and they don’t have to go through the time and expense of setting up a private foundation, which tend to require larger investments and costly start up and maintenance costs. So there’s a low barrier to entry. And one of the biggest incentives is if they need a tax deduction this year, they can get one. And this is where the new tax law comes in. Since passage of the new tax act in 2017 you’re probably aware that fewer donors can itemize deductions unless their deductions exceed the standard deduction. So when a donor gets a huge windfall like this, it’s possible that the amount that they’re giving charitably is going to exceed the standard deduction.
So what they can do is take the big deduction this year and then not contribute to charity the following year and take the standard deduction then. And this is called bunching or bundling. And so you get the larger deduction in the year of the gift and then you can recommend distributions from this money that you’ve bunched in your donor advised fund account over ensuing years when you’re not making the big gifts. Also, you can deduct up to 50% of the of your adjusted gross income when you give to a public charity, which donor advised funds are considered to be as opposed to a private foundation where you can only deduct up to 30% the other tax that you can avoid as the capital gains tax. So if you put appreciated assets into the donor advised fund, stocks, personal or real property, and you want the full benefit of the deduction, the fair market value, when you make the gift, but you don’t want to pay taxes on the growth, this is a really great vehicle for you.
So let’s say you have a Beach House that you purchased for $100,000 but now it’s appraised at $1 million. If the donor were to sell that property, they would have to pay gains taxes on the $900,000 worth of appreciation, but if they donated into a donor advised fund, they get a deduction based on the full million dollar fair market value. Now just to note here, not all donor advised funds except real estate, but many of them will if the property is marketable and all of them accept stocks and I think about 50% of all gifts to donor advised funds last year were appreciated assets and what happens is the net proceeds on the sale goes into the donor advised fund and then they can recommend distributions. Again, not just this year, but over as many years as they want. They don’t have complete control. That’s why it’s called donor advised funds.
They advise the holder of the account, gee, I would like to make a recommendation to x, Y, z charity and 99% of the time the recommendation is approved. Okay. Another reason to do this is the donor wants professional investment advisory services so that they’re, they’re parking their windfall in a safe, prudent investment, but they won’t have to make investment decisions. And again, the money grows tax free because it’s all eventually going to a charitable purpose. And the administrator, excuse me, provides useful services. So they send them one receipt that they can use for their tax reporting. They don’t have to collect receipts from multiple charities, they will vet charities. So when I was a donor advised fund administrator, people would sometimes ask me, you know, I’d like to give to this homeless charity or this veterans charity. Are they, are they okay? And I would do the research for them and let them know that yes, that was a, that was a good idea or it wasn’t.
The Fund will write all the checks and it’s really one centralized place from which they can do all their giving. And that’s the other reason is people like the convenience of a centralized, evergreen philanthropic account. They want to make sure that they’ve set the money aside so that it doesn’t get frittered away. And they like the convenience of doing all their philanthropic checking and receiving from this centralized place. They like being able to recommend distributions for as many years as they wish moving forward until their death or the death of their named successors. And you can name successors on a donor advised fund and they have time to decide who they’re going to give their gift to. So there’s multiple reasons why a donor might want to set up a donor advised fund. I’ve put them all together here for you on one slide so you can refer to it later or share it with people in your office and you can look at this more later.
Right now what I’d like to do is go back to the parking lot analogy for a moment to just really cement this idea and reveal why more and more donors are using this philanthropic strategy. Because the whole point of today’s session is to get you to embrace the fact that this is a rich resource for you and one that merits its own fundraising strategy. So again, just to summarize, everything is safe and protected here. The fees are minimal because it’s very, very efficient. There’s very good incentives that are offered to donors. The tax benefits, the fact that they can share this space with their successors. So it becomes like a mini foundation, but there’s less regulations. There’s no required minimum distribution. At least at this point. The donor advised fund administrator helps vets the charities, writes the checks and the donor can recommend recipients whenever they go shopping at their leisure to pick their favorite charities and then simply let the holder of the donor advised funds, know who they would like to recommend a gift to and how much and Walla it’s done.
So let’s look now at not the vehicle but the donors. So there are six common characteristics of donor advised fund donors and they are not the same as the stereotypical foundation donor who might establish a multimillion dollar repository for philanthropy because they’re so easy to establish because there’s low overhead because there’s no strict distribution requirements. A broad spectrum of donors participate and the minimums to establish a donor advise fund vary. But an initial gift is usually around $5,000. Um, some, some funds have higher minimums. Fidelity reports that 57% of their donor advised funds have balances of less than $25,000 and several thousand have balances of more than a million. So the common characteristics of these donors are they prioritize giving. They don’t give on a whim. They’re very serious about their philanthropy. That’s why they set up a formal charity distribution vehicle. Unlike private foundations, donor advised funds tend to give away their money quickly and despite there’s been a lot of talk about how the money just sits there and doesn’t go go out to charity and it’s controversial. That’s something you can’t control. And so I want to talk about what you can control. And what I’ve found out is that from from these large reporting institutions is that 38% of the money that goes in is gone within the year and 74% is out within five years. Most donor advised funds are set up not to last beyond two generations, whereas many foundations are set up to last as perpetuities and they give out the bare minimum of 5% of assets each year.
Nonprofits report that donor advised fund gifts tend to be larger than typical contributions. Vanguard charitable reports that their average donor advised fund gift is nearly $12,000. The delegatee reports that their average gift is $4,200 nonprofit trust reports that their average donor advised fund has about 300,000 in its account. So these are not multi, multimillion dollar accounts and people are thinking of it more as a philanthropic wallet.
These donor advised funds also tend to have a higher rate of volunteerism and they tend to make major and planned gifts. So if they are volunteering with you through direct service or sitting on committees, they’re really hearing about your needs firsthand. They’re gaining a perspective on how they can become a part of the solution and they’re being inspired to give to you. So that’s a good thing to keep in mind is to be looking at your volunteers and your committee members. And trying to find out if they might have a donor advised fund. Again, these people are longterm thinkers. They take a very thoughtful, organized approach to philanthropy. Some of you in the audience today May, may have donor advised funds and you know that you’re often very interested in collaborating with your charitable recipients and you really care about the demonstrated effectiveness of your gift.
So it’s really important to think of donor advice, fund donors as people who want reports on impact. And then sometimes funds are set up to pass to succeeding organizations. There’s, there’s a strong desire among a majority of donor advised fund donors to engage their family members in giving decisions. Many donor advised fund donors, will sit down with their family to discuss their annual philanthropy. Um, and the other interesting thing is that anyone can give to an established donor advised fund. So children might give a gift into their parents fund in honor of a special anniversary or other occasions. So these funds aren’t static, they keep growing.
So now let’s move to the three best ways that you can serve your donor advised fund donors. Here’s a quote from a recent article in Stanford Social Innovation Review titled How nonprofits can help donor advise fund philanthropists, listen and learn. DAF giving is rooted solidly in the donors desire for greater impact, both in terms of maximizing financial resources for giving but also for creating a more organized and thoughtful approach to philanthropy, including selecting which nonprofits and projects to fund. Research from fidelity shows that the choice to establish and use a donor advised fund may predispose its holder to value feedback from you. So daf owners already know they want to give, but they want to validate that who they’re giving to is working. So you really want to put your impact out there and then once the gift is made, you really want to validate the fact that the donor made a good decision.
So let’s look more closely at these three service areas. The impact of your organization, the impact of the donors, specific gift to you and the insight that you can show donors do have into the root problems that they want to address. So you want to be showing impact everywhere and every way that you can. I just can’t emphasize enough that this group of donors that you’re targeting are serious about their philanthropy and you need to show them that you are DAF worthy. And so this really means fundraising and nonprofit Marketing Fundamentals One oh one you want to be showing impact on your website, on your blog, on your e newsletter, via email, via social media. And if your website is is old and it’s egocentric and it’s focused on facts and figures and processes, you’re not going to impress people. So you want to have stories and visuals and emotional successes, videos, photos, testimonials that specifically demonstrate to people the beneficial impact that the gifts make for your cause.
You also want to optimize your website for search. So donor advised fund donors who are looking to help in your area of expertise will easily find you because donor advised fund donors are in active pursuit of what works. You want to tell what was accomplished. So again, folks are parking their charitable investment and then they’re advising that it go out to a number of different charities. The typical fidelity giving account donor has a portfolio that averages giving to about eight different charities. So whether they recommend a grant of 10,000 or 10 million a year, they often decide based on whatever their larger vision or goal is, uh, and it could be addressing needs in the local community. It could be making a dent in a broader social program. And they’re thinking, okay, I want to help climate change. Let me find the charities who, who do that or I want to help make a dent in the homeless problem.
Let me find the charities who do that. So for donor advised fund donors to connect the dots and they’re giving portfolios in a way that they want to do that, they need feedback from the populations that they seek to help. So this is an opportunity for you when you get a gift too. Again, back to fundamentals. Send a warm thank you that has stories of impact. Asks for donor advised fund donor feedback. Listen for their insight on areas of need and challenges and opportunities. You want to talk to these donors. You don’t want to treat them differently because the gift came from a third party. We’re going to talk about how you can find out who these donors are. You want to provide testimonials from the folks that these donors are trying to help. So again, if you can’t talk directly to the donor, talk to the donor administrator and ask them to share your feedback with the donor. So back to fundraising 101, I hope you know that your thank you kickstarts trust-building, which is the cornerstone, the building block of any lasting relationship and then your subsequent communications of gratitude and impact cement this trust. So this brings us to,
something that I encourage you to do, which is to meet with your local donor advised fund sponsor organizations. And often this might be a community foundation, the local Jewish community federation. Um, some something like that. There’s no central database that I’m aware of where you can search for donor advised funds, but there are networks of people who help folks establish and administer donor advice funds. And this includes wealth tax and legal advisors and fundraising and donor services staff. At community foundations and often these advisors are looking for organizations like yours to recommend you provide an invaluable service by offering on the ground insight into the root causes of problems and opportunities to make a difference. And so you want to get on the radar of these people. You want to build a relationship with these people. You’re used to going to your community foundation for grants.
But if you look in your annual, in their annual reports, you’ll see that a lot of the grants are being made out of individual donor advised funds. And so you want to meet with them to find out how you can tap into that philanthropy because they influence millions of dollars of philanthropy, which brings us to nine strategies to attract and leverage donor advised fund philanthropy. So we’re going to go through each of these nine so I’m not going to read them here just in the interest of time cause I want to get to your questions at the end. The first is to become a sleuth. So you want to look at donor advised fund donations to other organizations, get their annual reports, get programs, whatever you can get and and see what else is going on locally or within your field of operations to get a sense of whether any of your supporters might have a donor advised fund.
You might see their name, it might be from the, you know, Joe and Jacqueline Smith donor advised fund. And you see it in the program of the symphony and you go on like, oh, I didn’t know they had one of those. So again, look at, look at your local community foundation annual report, your United way annual report, your Jewish community federation annual report. The biggest repositories of donor advised funds today are fidelity charitable, Schwab charitable, the Silicon Valley Community Foundation, and vanguard charitable. So the next strategy in sleuthing is to look for hints as to your donors interests. So you want to pay attention to the types of causes your donors are supporting with their donor advised funds and consider how you might tailor a philanthropic approach to them based on these interests. So perhaps your a comprehensive human services organization and you notice through a community foundation annual report that one of your donors supported a homeless shelter in your community through their donor advised fund.
Well maybe your organization provides a lot of homelessness services of which your donor may not be aware. Now you know you should set up a meeting with this person to talk about the services that you provide. If you’re an arts organization, maybe you noticed that your donor supported high school scholarships for another type of organization and so maybe this is a signal to you to meet with them to talk about the stipends that you provide to help low income kids attend performances. Often donors are not aware of the full depth and breadth of what you do and if you’re really looking for these hints, you can make a match. The next strategy is simply to ask your donors if they have a donor advised fund. It really can’t hurt to ask them and then ask them if they’d like to make a distribution to you from this fund.
Again, because of the new tax law, some of your donors may have decided to set up a fund and or if they had a fund already to bunch some of their donations last year or the year before in order to make the new tax lot work in their favor. So now they basically got a donor advised fund filled with money just waiting to be distributed. So when you approach them for a gift this year, they may just have forgotten this little burning pocket of money that they’ve got and it’s a painless way for them to give to you and you might just end up with a larger gift than you’d otherwise have received just because you gave them a reminder. Next strategy is to follow clues. So this is, this is a big, big one because a lot of people say that they get gifts from donor advised funds, but they don’t know the name of the individual donor.
So you should always try to ascertain the donors identity so that you can steward them appropriately. Checks won’t come directly from the donor, but from the sponsoring organization like fidelity or charitable or Schwab or vanguard or the community foundation, some grants will include the donors name, but some may not. Uh, and you want to try to figure it out. Here’s the good news. Vanguard reports that only 5% of their donors choose to remain anonymous. So sometimes simply examining the accompanying paperwork that comes with the check, will reveal the answer to you. So if it says made from the Jenn generosity fund or recommended from the John Doe Memorial Fund, if Jen generosity is your donor, or if Jane Doe’s kids sit on your board, you’re gonna know who your donor is. And you can also look at past donor advised fund recommendations to you to see. Huh? We just got this $4,000 donor advised fund recommendation from fidelity.
Uh, Joe and Jerry usually make a $4,000 donor advice fund recommendation around this time of year. They haven’t done that yet this year. Let’s call them up and ask them if this is from that. And there’s really no downside to them because if it wasn’t from them, that call acts as a good reminder to them that they still need to make their gift. So the next strategy is just to be promoting the fact that you accept donor advised fund gifts. Donors only know what you tell them and people have a very funny way of making assumptions if you don’t let them know that you accept gifts from donor advised funds or for that matter that you accept gifts from IRAs or that you accept the quest from wills or trust. Folks just won’t think of you when it comes to making these types of philanthropic distributions. So you want to include this information prominently on all of your fundraising marketing materials so that you’re encouraging people to give through their donor advised funds.
So on the left of the screen, there’s an example from the International Rescue Committee and I’ve circled the part where they say, hey, you can make this give through your donor advised fund. And then they go on with all of the wonderful ways your gift will have impact on the right of the screen. I have an example from Jewish family and children’s services where I used to direct and I set up the donor advised fund program there and again you can see at the bottom give from your donor advised fund and there’s even a place where you can click to give and they’ve actually set up a widget on their site and I’m going to talk about that later. That’s a way that you can make giving from donor advised funds really seamless. Again, you’re promoting this giving in all of your marketing materials in many different ways.
This is a profile of a donor on the the Jewish family and children’s services website showing, gee, we, we gave through our donor advised fund and you know, we think that this is a wonderful way to give. So you’re promoting the donors because people follow other people. I can’t tell you how many times I had people call me up and say, you know, I saw that you know, the, the, the Jacobson’s we’re giving from a donor advise fund. And I thought, Hey, I could do that too. And so it’s, it’s really important to do that. It’s called social proof. It’s one of the principles of persuasion that Robert Cialdini talks about in his book influence, which if you haven’t read, you should read. And you can also look for your own examples. And I would suggest that you search hospitals and universities, which tend to do a really good job, not always by any means, but of, of showcasing how people can give to different types of giving vehicles.
Um, the next strategy is to provide comprehensive up to date information to guidestar. It’s now guidestar candid. You’ve got a nonprofit directory profile there. If you, if you don’t, you should claim it. Many donor advised fund sponsors share the nonprofit profile information that’s up on guidestar with their donors. Or if they don’t share it, they use it themselves to help their clients make informed strategic philanthropic decisions. So vanguard charitable advisors, for example, as they research charities to support, they make more than 15,000 searches each month using the national nonprofit directory up on Guidestar. This is a vastly underutilized resource resource by most charities. Um, you have the ability to tailor what people see up there and even were donor advised funds not to exist at all. There are tens of millions of donors who searched this research of this resource and you should be putting your best foot forward on that profile.
So if your finance director is the person who fills that out, go meet with the finance director and talk about the way that you describe your charity. It’s really the cheapest advertising around. Okay. The next strategy is huge and it’s part of fundraising fundamentals 101 which is to steward your donor advised fund donors appropriately. So when you receive a donor advised fund gift, you will sense it comes from the San Francisco Community Foundation. You’re going to be putting it in the database as a gift from the San Francisco Community Foundation. But then you want to soft credit the individual donor in your database so you can build a record of that donors giving. The worst thing to happen is if, if Claire Axlerad gives every year and wants to be recognized in your annual report is $1,000 annual donor. And you don’t soft credit her, then her gift is going to show up as a gift from the San Francisco Community Foundation.
And, and she’s going to say, hey, why didn’t, why didn’t I get listed? I made a gift to you this year. So again, you want to send them this timely thank you letter right away to the donors that reassures them that you got the gift and you don’t just send them a tax receipt and then you want to consider of course including them in your major gift process for research, for cultivation, for solicitation. And by the way, just as an aside, I offer a major gift fundraising course online twice a year. Registration just opened yesterday for the one that I’m offering this fall. And so you might want to take a look at that. Um, you can still get in on the early bird discount. Okay. So I know that a lot of development staff feel hesitant about contacting donor advised fund donors directly because there’s this presumption that because the donor is giving through a donor advised fund, they must want to keep their distance.
Well as I said to you earlier, that’s not really true. Most people don’t want to be anonymous, so don’t make that assumption. Again, the letter that comes with the check will typically include the donor’s name and address. Don’t ignore it. You should be attempting to cultivate and steward this relationship as you would any other relationship. So don’t just send the thank you to the San Francisco Community Foundation. Thank you as the most important thing that you can ever do. And it gives you an opportunity to reassure the donor that they’re going to make the impact that they intended to make. Also, don’t neglect thanking the donor advised fund sponsor. Remember the folks running these funds are also people and if you build a positive relationship with them, they just might recommend you to other donors who are looking to enact the values that your organization enacts. You don’t want to confuse donors by thanking them for their tax deductible gift. So they have already received a tax deduction for their giving. And a good way to handle this is simply thank you for your $250 gift made from your Jenn generosity donor advised fund. This gives a heads up to their accountant, not to double count this when they prepare the donor’s tax return.
Don’t ask the donor advised fund sponsor to let you know this gift fulfills the donors pledge. So whether or not a donor advise fund gift can be in fulfillment of a pledge, the answer is a no. Now this used to be a complete no, no. You had to be careful not to even mention to your donor when you thank them that this gift fulfilled their pledge. Now the IRS has eased up on this a little bit. It is okay to say to the donor, this fulfills your intent to give, uh, because that’s not a legally binding pledge. But the donor advised fund sponsor is still not allowed to put this in writing. So please don’t ask them to send you a letter to that effect and then never tell the donor that they will receive anything of value. They can’t buy a raffle ticket. They can’t buy event tickets, they can’t buy auction items and there’s been a change over recent year which the the IRS used to allow what was called a bifurcated payment where the donors subtracted the fair market value of their item, like a a gala ticket, so maybe they paid 200 and the fair market value was a hundred they would have to pay for the fair market value through their own checkbook and then they could pay the tax deductible amount through the donor advised fund.
They can’t do that anymore. Near attendance at it at an event is considered an incidental value. So just keep that in mind. And then let’s look at some common pitfalls where stewardship tends to go awry. And this again is, we’ve covered this a little bit is your staff aren’t trained to spot and appropriately enter donor advised fund gifts in the database. So this is this idea of soft crediting individual donors while also entering into the database. The fact that it’s come from a donor advised fund and why this is important is if you are pulling reports, let’s say you want a list of all your $100 plus donors, but you don’t include donors with soft credits. In that report you’re going to grab the donor advised fund sponsor but not the donor and you should be aware that a lot of CRM standards selects do not include the soft credits. So it’s an extra step that you have to take in your brain which is to ask whoever is pulling the reports for you to include soft credits in the query. Also, what you can do as you know, depending on your role is just go to your database administrator or ask your software vendor whether the CRM automatically acknowledges soft credits donors or just the donor advised fund sponsor and make sure that your um, marketing communications plan is automatically including sending ongoing donor communications to soft credited donors.
And then there’s the eighth strategy here is that you really want to prioritize proactive engagement with donor advise fund donors consider them a special segment for cultivation. And this is really common sense because we went through the common characteristics of these donors and they really are more serious about philanthropy and they really do make larger than average gifts. So you really want to think about how might we further engage these folks and really make them feel like valued members of our community. So you might want to ask specifically these donors to volunteer. Uh, it helps them to see your mission come to life. And since we know many donor advised fund donors like to involve their family in philanthropy, why not include their kids, their grandkids, their grandparents, and tailor your volunteer opportunities accordingly. So when I worked at the San Francisco Food Bank, I used to, you know, be proactive about bringing in families with kids to package beans and rice together.
When I worked at Jewish family and children’s services, I would invite families with young kids to come decorate gift cards to include in care packages that we were delivering to seniors. So you’re really kind of using the opportunity of this multigenerational giving vehicle to kind of plant seeds with the different generations that will hopefully grow. And, and blossom ask donor advised fund donors to join your committees too. Um, that’s a great testing ground and a pathway to board involvement. Again, it enables these donors to learn more about your work and your impact and it connects these donors to multiple folks who are passionate about your organization, which serves as a powerful testimonial to your credibility and creates a pleasurable networking social kind of opportunity among people with shared values. And then consider which of your DAF donors might be prospects for upgraded or major gifts.
Include some of them in your major gift portfolios. Go about the process of qualifying them to ascertain whether they’d be open to building deeper relationships. And if you want to know more about how to do all of that, my course is a great option. Okay. Finally I pulled these examples, um, from the University of Washington and from Jewish family and children’s services to um, just show you ways that you can make donor advise fund giving very user friendly. So you know, here on the left you can see there they’re explaining how easy it is to do it and they give information about your legal name and you know, just how, how you can browse through different funds and, and make a gift that way. Uh, on the right you see questions that are commonly asked questions about a donation. And included in there is how do I give using my donor advised fund.
So you’re, you know, you’re just triggering people to think about giving that way, making it easy. You could devote a whole website to a webpage to donor advise fund giving. This is from St Jude Children’s Research Hospital. This comes right off of their ways to give menu and you can see that donor advised funds is one of the specific ways that they are encouraging people to make a gift to them. Uh, you can also have devoted landing pages to donor advised fund giving. Here you’re given the option to learn more about donor advised funds from St Jude’s. Um, and they also include on the right hand side of the screen. Oh, you could make just mail us a gift if you want. So you know, you’re always trying to make, giving super, super easy. And on this page you’ll see there’s absolutely nothing else on the page competing for the donor attention except learning more about donor advised funds.
And when they click on that red button, they’re taken to a page that says, invest through our donor advised fund. There’s a compelling photo there. Uh, there’s a caption saying that this is Tammy age five, she has brain cancer and you can either learn more or you can make your grant. Now if you click on the red button, you go here, they’re really thinking from the donor’s perspective, you know, here’s the information you need. Here’s our tax ID, here’s our mailing address. And Gee, if you already have a donor advised fund, you can select the financial institution and log into your account right now. And it just makes it super, super easy. Now, it used to be next to impossible to facilitate donor advised giving this way. But today, most donor advised fund donors do their giving from their funds online. So even if you’re not a big player in the space, like Saint Jude’s is not a big player yet.
It may pay to consider upping your online giving game by moving into the digital age and installing the donor advise fund direct it’s called Daf direct widget on your website and this allows donors to log into their charitable accounts with with certain institutions, fidelity, Schwab or I think BNY Mellon directly from your website to make a grant to you and it’s free. There’s no processing fees and then you can, if you want to build links to additional options you can and that you can see, well St Jude’s did that, we saw that before and here aarp does that you can see in red the other charities that they’ve added if people want to make their distributions from there. So quick, quick summary is that you just want to get more systematic with donor advised fund promotion and donor advise fund, donor cultivation, whatever you do, you don’t want to turn a blind eye to DAFs support.
Not only are there more and more of them, the number increased by 60% from 2016 to 2017. And donor advised fund grants increased nearly 20%, which was a faster rate of growth than any prior year. So I would encourage you to prioritize this year learning more about this subject, really being on the lookout for these types of donors, making a plan to promote the fact that you accept donor advised fund grants and then making a proactive plan to cultivate and steward these very special donors. I think you’ll be really glad that you did. And now if we have time for questions still, let’s go ahead and do it.
Okay, Claire, we have so many questions. I’m going to have to just cherry pick a few and then give my apologies to everyone, uh, and assure you that all your questions will be forwarded to Claire so that uh, perhaps she can interact with you individually and um, and most importantly, you can see right here where you can gain access to Claire but also all of Clara’s content. So do take this information down. Of course you will be getting a copy of the slide deck in your email. Be on the lookout for that. Make sure that it hasn’t gone into your spam folder that happens to us all. Sometimes I’m recording with all the things she’s been saying. Above and beyond. These slides will be posted at donorsearch.net under the resources tab and it’s donorsearch.net resources tab, flash class library. That’s where this recording will be with the 166 that proceeded it.
Um, so I do look for that and all of the rest of her contact right here, including her website, her Twitter account. All right there. And once again you can tell it’s possible to enroll in her school. So, um, I, these are not obviously commercial webinars here, but uh, we would encourage you and I would as a fellow professional to take a look at what she has to offer. Now we’re going to go ahead and just bullet questions with the proviso that this does not reflect the full range of everything you were asking. So just a couple, one, one big broad one. I know that happens that occurs to many people. This came from Jenny is why would a recommendation not be granted? Who makes that decision specifically?
Okay. So the donor advised fund administrator would make it and one of the reasons that they might not recommend it is because when they researched the charity they see that it’s in, maybe it’s in legal proceedings or um, you know, they don’t, they don’t meet certain standards, they don’t have enough of public support that it does looks like a shady charity. And so that’s part of what you’re paying for by setting up a donor advised fund with, you know, some kind of account provider is for that little bit of extra comfort that you’re not going to end up distributing to a charity that is kind of shady. For the most part, donor advised fund holders have a whole list of charities that they’ve made distributions to in the past. So it’s very easy for them to approve because they’ve already vetted it. But sometimes something new will come along or maybe the fund is set up to only distribute to local charities and the donor makes a recommendation to an international charity. So in that case it might not be approved.
And in fact, we did have a question from someone about, uh, international, the international aspect for specifically, um, about Canadian charities and whether or not the tax laws are similar. Can you speak to that at all about whether there are some good resources for Canadians to learn about taxes that comes from Eric.
I honestly can’t, I really only know about the United States and I apologize.
Well, and, but I think that it, it does speak to how there has been a change in the philanthropic environment. So I’m glad you asked that question. And unfortunately, I guess you’ll have to turn to our colleagues up north for a little more, um, clarity on that. Uh, we do have, um, uh, so many questions. One is, uh, to do with, um, the reaction of the, uh, the various DAF providers, um, or DAF administrators, I guess I should say. Um, and, uh, in some confusion about that potentially a Jenny had written, I contacted fidelity regarding our nonprofit and was told that because we’re a 501c3 were automatically registered. Is there anything additional that needs to be done?
Um, I’m not sure I even understand that question. A automatically registered to be a recipient of a gift. I mean, I think, I mean basically when a donor recommends a distribution to any 501c3 charity, then I, I think what they mean that they’re automatically registered is that you’re probably showing up in the, in the directory that they use from guidestar candid. Right. And they don’t, you don’t have to just sign up and say, are we worthy of being a recipient? They don’t do it that way.
And I’m so glad you put it that way, Claire, because there was a question earlier.
about charities. Are we talking about all 501c3s? And clearly you’re talking about the ladder and that means that an organization doesn’t need to necessarily be registered somewhere. If you’re, if you’re were 501c3 then you are eligible for a distribution. It’s just a matter of whether or not they know you’re there. Um, so that’s, that’s, that’s so important to make that, make that really crystal clear. Um, and let me see. We have, uh, oh, this is just another way of asking the question we asked before, which is why would someone reject a recommendation?
I think I just answered that they would reject it because maybe, you know, you’re involved in some kind of a scandal or, you know, there are certain requirements that a public charity has to have, you know, x percent of their contributions be coming from, from individuals. And if, if, if you can see that, you know, 98% of the money is, you know,
being spent not on charity, then they would say, hey, you know, this doesn’t really look legit.
Right. And I, I’m sorry, I asked the same question a different way, but it’s just because I, obviously this comes up a lot, so I think perhaps repeating, yeah,
that’s really, really rare that, that, that distribution is not approved,
Like, like, like you don’t have to register to be eligible to receive a bequest. You don’t have to register to be eligible to receive a gift from a donor’s Ira. You don’t have to register to be eligible to receive a gift from a foundation. The same holds true with a donor advised fund. It’s just another giving vehicle. So you think about it as kind of the donors wallet or a donor ATM. It’s just a place where they park their money. Right. And you want to be able to, when you’re talking to your donors, you know, once you’ve gotten to the point where they’ve decided we’re gonna make a gift to you, then you say, oh, would you like to make that gift outright? Or would, or do you have appreciated stocks that might be more beneficial to you? Or do you have a donor advise fund that might be a great way for you to make the gift or at the end of the year, if you were, you were required to have a minimum distribution from your IRA and you don’t need that money. Maybe you’d like to make the gift that way that could be tax advantageous to you. So you’re always trying to think of ways that you can be helpful to the donor in making the gift that they’ve already decided to make to you.
We have a question here about, um, asking, can you speak again about paying for sponsorships through a DAF? Uh, how is the donor thanked
the, um, the donor can not get any kind of benefit. So you know, it when you send a thank you letter, you will say, no goods or services were in consideration of this gift. Anything where a good or service was given in consideration is not eligible for a donor advised fund gift recommendation. Now, if somebody is not attending an event and they’re just giving $1,000 donation towards the event, I think that would probably be okay. Uh, it’s just that if they’re buying a table and they have the right to recommend who attends that table, they are getting a benefit. Well, I hope that makes sense.
Yeah, it certainly does. And in fact that one slide, you have two or three slides back going over that I thought was, was quite clear. Um, but it just bears repeating. Um, let me see. We have a, I’ll just, uh, I could couple couple more and in fact they’re spread amongst lots of people thanking you very much this content. Um, so it’s a, it’s, it’s quite helpful. Um, are there any specific, uh, donor advised fund managers you would recommend?
No, no. I mean, all of these, these ones that I’ve mentioned, they’re all very similar. They all do effective jobs. And um, you know, sometimes if you, if you have a local community foundation, people prefer that because they feel like they’re, um, I mean, if you’re a donor, I’m assuming this is coming from the perspective of a donor wanting to set up a fund. They feel like the, the community fund managers are more in touch with what’s going on in their community than some of these larger purveyors, but also the, um, the different accounts charge different fees. So you know, you, I mean it’s, you know, typical to charge like 1%. Uh, but the, the fund that I administered, we charged very, very low fees for example. So you just might want to shop around in that regard.
and um, again, I, I just want to point to something that I didn’t know anything about. You were just mentioning it at the conclusion towards the conclusion about the app so that people can put this right within a page dedicated to donor advised funds. So there’s part of that, it’s about best practice making sure people are aware that they can donate this way. Having perhaps a page dedicated to that purpose, that’s not confusing. It doesn’t lead them in 14 different directions. Really exceptional advice. And then having that, that widget as it were so people can make that donation directly to the major funds. And would you mind repeating which one that is? What that, what that app is that people can load onto there.
Oh, Daf direct, d a f direct.
And that again is in your slide deck. So be on the lookout for that as one of the many, many concrete suggestions here. But I have seen a lot of people integrate that in sites yet. Uh, and that may be a blind spot on my part, but I just thought it was a really, really helpful look
at the examples and go directly to the websites of the examples I provided so you can really see how it moves from page to page and how easy hopefully it is for a donor to do this. And you know, when I used to administer my fund, people would ask if they could do this online and there was no way to do it at the time. And um, I think this is a great, great enhancement. You know, it’s just so user friendly.
Yeah, I’ll, I’ll say, ah, it sure looks like it’s a huge help. Well, thank you so much. I, I unfortunately everybody, we’re going to have to take all these what looks like in more than two or three dozen questions and pass them directly to Claire. So I hope that that smattering of some samples gives you an idea about how much interest there is in this topic and how hungry people are for good concrete, actionable information, which you’ve certainly provided volumes of today. Thank you so much Claire.
Okay, and what I will try to do, depending on how many questions there are is just take a look at all of them and answer them and send that information to all of you so that everybody gets the benefit of the answers.
Terrific. That’s it. That’s a great idea. So I’ll be on the lookout for that as well, everyone. So I don’t know when that will come to you. It depends upon how much volume there is and what she can do. But you can definitely be looking into your email for this slide deck and once again online in case you missed that online at donorsearch.net under the resources tab, flash class library for the recording today. Our Thanks once again for a very great presentation by by Clara Axelrod. We’re so grateful for that and I want to thank all of you of course for being here and remind you that next week on Wednesday, August seven, we have Sophie penny returning to the flash class stage to present on as she puts it, water retention and donor retention. What? So if you want to know the answer to that question, uh, be here on Wednesday, August 7th.
Uh, Sophie is a great presenter and always providing at really, really important content to us. Of course, we want to thank DonorSearch for providing this platform and particularly this week Bill Tedesco founder and CEO and Sarah Tedesco, the Executive VP who are both at the APRA conference in Phoenix down there sweating it out with about a thousand conferees from one of our favorite parts of the fundraising world world of prospect development. So hello to all of you in Phoenix. Thank you as always of course to our producer Terrance Diggs, who is quietly sitting behind the technology here today. He’s the brains and brawn behind marketing and executing this program. This is Jay Frost. I want to thank you for joining us. We look forward to seeing you next time. Until then, take care.