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By Ryan Ponzurick

The Heart of the Matter: How Simple Data Analytics Can Boost Your Planned Giving Program

Air Date: July 24, 2019

Nearly every fundraiser knows that single or widowed, childless adults usually make the best planned giving candidates, especially if they are long-time donors. But each organization is unique and will have specific data points that are key to finding the best of the best. Whether you’re a small shop, a mid-sized organization or a large one, you can use simple do-it-yourself data analytics to make a big difference. Join us as we learn the why’s and the how’s of making it happen.

VIDEO TRANSCRIPTION

Jay Frost: (01:09)

Hey everybody, this is Jay Frost to speaking to you with a little more musical as well too, uh, to this, a series of flash classes brought to you by DonorSearch. Um, and you can tell we’re experimenting with a little bit of our opening slides, maybe a little too much experimentation on my part, not Terrance’s, but very happy to welcome you back here to another of these sessions. We’re now at over 200 we believe because even though we deal with data all the time around here, that’s a pretty high number when it comes to webinars. But yeah, if this is your first time, welcome. If this is your 200th time, welcome once again, I’m going to take the next couple of minutes to tell you of course about how you can get this content after the fact as you can see already on screen. Uh, and how um, you’ll be getting some of that coming to you. In fact, right in your email, as well as how you can interact with our presenter today.

 

Jay Frost: (02:05)

So if you’ve heard all this before, you can either just put your fingers in your ears or get your friends and colleagues gather on your favorite screen, grabs something nice to drink and get ready for another terrific session. In this series, we’re going to start now with just telling you a bit about how you’re going to get the content. And this page you’re looking at right now is very much like what the page at the DonorSearch site looks like. That’s at donorsearch.net so if you were to go to donorsearch.net go to the resources tab and toggle down. First of all, you’d find flash classes, which is where you’d see the calendar for everything coming up and a lot’s coming up in the weeks and months ahead. And the Flash Class Library, which is where all the recordings of all these sessions are all the two hundred, in fact going back to mid 2016 so if you want to know virtually anything about anything in our field, you’ll find great content from a lot of terrific presenters right there for you.

 

Jay Frost: (02:56)

And this session will be posted in the next couple of days. So, uh, do go over there for that and share it with your colleagues who can’t be with you today and it will be ready for you whenever you are ready for it. And in terms of the slide deck, um, it’s a beautiful slide deck today. Um, that slide deck will be available for you via your email. So be on the lookout for something coming to you that way if you don’t see it in the next couple of days, check your spam filter. We all know sometimes the best content ends up there. And, uh, in terms of the, um, uh, the recorded videos, once again, that page, it looks just like this, you’ll see that, uh, all the content is searchable these days. So if you haven’t been there for a bit to take a look, you can find any of the past sessions, but to, once again, they’re ready for you to grab in terms of interacting with our presenter.

 

Jay Frost: (03:45)

Uh, we have silenced your microphones so that if someone like me puts on the music, once again, you won’t hear that twice. But, um, we do want to hear from you. We just won’t be hearing your voices. So the best way to ensure that we can know that you were there is to simply go where the bouncing Arrow is. That’s in the questions tab. That’s where I’ll be looking for all the questions and comments that come through throughout the presentation. And that’s where you can go ahead and post anything at any time. And then I’ll share all those with our presenter at the conclusion of her presentation today. And in fact, you know, it might not be a bad idea to go ahead and test that a little bit. So if you would just go right ahead right now, go into the questions tab and just let us know you’re here.

 

Jay Frost: (04:28)

Um, tell us where you’re from so I can see already maybe a couple of people hi there Lindsay and, oh, Portland. Amy. Great. Nancy. Hi there, Orlando. Thanks Casey. But we’ve got somebody of Richmond, my neck of the woods. Hi Mark. Hi Evan. It’s from San Jose. It looks like Toronto. Richmond, a central point. Let me see. North Carolina, Raleigh, Indianapolis, New Jersey, Denver. Wow. You guys are from all over the place. This is going to be a great crowd and a great presentation. Thank you for going ahead and checking in. um. I do want to take a minute, of course, as we begin to do the proper thing and that’s to introduce today’s presenter. You probably know the topic already. It’s the heart of the matter, how simple data analytics can boost your planned giving program. Um, but of course this data analytics stuff we’ll be talking about today will have benefits throughout everything you do.

 

Jay Frost: (05:21)

It’s just that this particular area is so important for us as we know with that big wealth transfer that continues to happen and will be, uh, really a significant part of philanthropy in the years ahead. And we have the right person to talk about this with you. And that is our friend Linda Garrison CFRA who is the head of and a fundraising Sherpa I should say, of acuity, uh, her firm, uh, and uh, based in Colorado. Uh, she has a great background in this field. Uh, so I’ll just give you a little bit of a thumbnail sketch of that. She was previously a senior consultant at wealth engine director of development at the Space Foundation, interim director of development in Colorado. I have a dream foundation director of campaigns and major gifts at her Alma Mater, Metropolitan State University of Denver, and prior to that, vice president at Robert B. Sharp and company. Um, so lots of different experience. Plus she’s spoken, um, at local and national conferences of AFP and Appro many friends of those associations right here today and has been a member of the board of AFP, Colorado. So with no further ado, we’re gonna pass the baton with great pleasure to Linda Garrison. Thanks so much for being here today, Linda.

 

Linda Garrison: (06:34)

Thank you Jay. And Hi everyone. I’m trusting that you can see my screen now, uh, front of the slide deck. And so without further ado, we’re going to move forward hopefully and see if we can’t take a look at the contents. So, um, here’s what we’re going to go through today. We’re going to look at data overall. Then were going to look at

 

Linda Garrison: (07:00)

Segmentation and especially with an eye towards planned giving. I work with a number of nonprofits that don’t even have a planned giving program and are always anxious to find out, you know, how they can get one off the ground. Uh, as well as I’ve worked with, um, kind of planned giving powerhouses too. So. Well, let’s take a look at this. And um, also we’re going to just remind ourselves how we can leverage that donor data. Two, identify the best prospects for bequest. Um, that’s the best way to go about starting a plan giving program, uh, as well as those live income, uh, gifts like CRTs and so on. Now, whether or not you are using a wealth screening product, and I certainly hope since you’re on a DonorSearch flash class that you’re using DonorSearch, but whether or not you are this session is going to give you, I hopes and insights and some actionable things that you can take away and boost your organizations. Um, planned giving and other fundraising. So first still is what’s the big deal about data? I mean, we hear about data just about 24, seven and almost 365 don’t we? So, um, let’s just talk about our human brains, right? Which is really, and amazing thing. Okay. Yeah. Think about it. Yeah. So we have a tendency to make assumptions about things, right?

 

Linda Garrison: (08:39)

Especially when we’re faced with more than three or four data points, that’s called confirmation bias and we all do it. Unfortunately. For instance, I’m thinking about a former client of mine.

 

Linda Garrison: (08:52)

They were large faith-based nonprofit in the atlantic area and sure enough, they thought they knew about their donors. He assumed that they were older white guys who were Protestant intended to have very conservative political beliefs. They were in for a surprise because when they got their data analysis back, they were literally stunned to learn the 20% of their donors were Catholic. About half of them were more liberal politically and nearly half. We’re women now. Do you think that that changed their messaging and their ad buys and their website and all of the above? Yes, it surely did. And they experienced within a short order, greater success with their fundraising. And that’s why I stress the data is unbiased. It just, tells it. Like it really is. Okay. So that’s the first thing. Now, besides giving us impartial information, data allows us to break out our audience, donors and prospects down into nice bite sized chunks or segments. See, you can do that in a number of ways. The demographically by donor type or prospect type by screening scores and ratings, et cetera. So you’d don’t have to rely on our trusty old magic eight ball that is here. Um, so let’s tackle some ways to segment your database face first on a more macro level and then getting into planned giving where your jams are probably hiding right there in plain sight.

 

Linda Garrison: (10:37)

So ideally, okay, you have done a screening with DonorSearch. So let’s just remember that it’s combining your data with giving history to your organization. And particular demographics: age, gender, if you’re in higher education, it might be major or uh, graduation year. And this is going to then being melded and meshed with public asset data, right? Those found assets and that’s where the magic happens. When your data meets with other data like donorsearches, oops, I went the wrong way. Sorry about that. Oh, right. So we can segment by donor type, obviously major donors, annual donors, program specific donors, people who make a gift in honor of or in memory of someone. And we can also come up with um, clusters by geographic region. May Be you’ve got a big cluster of donors in the Chicago area and another is Florida and another in New York City. Right. We see that fairly often with okay. More national organizations. You can also do some stub segmentation, right? So for instance, if you’re seeking your best planned giving prospects from your major donor pool or maybe from your annual fund.

 

Linda Garrison: (12:11)

Yeah. So let’s take a look at how to get going. If you’re a young nonprofit or if you’re the one and only development person at your organization. And I think it would be fun. Um, if you guys could kind of weigh in as you know, if you are part of the young nonprofits or the one and only developement person. So let Jay know that in the chatbox widget. I’ll give you just a second for that. Okay. I think we probably all are familiar with some of the truisms about planned givers, right? So frequency, length of time on the file, people who are widowed or childless, et Cetera, et cetera. But have you dug down and taken a little bit of the deeper dive and looked at the idiosyncrasies that are peculiar in a good way to your own organization? For instance, do you find a lot of your volunteers tend to fit these descriptors? Or are you seeing that a lot of these people, these types of people are giving to a specific program or perhaps just scholarships if you’re higher ed, Et Cetera? So what we want to do is first look at the information you already have, right? The number of years giving. Um, if there’s increased, you know, substantial, slow growth in giving amount out, uh, et Cetera, et cetera. Um, this, um, longevity in the file, and also event participation can really help, um, flag the people who have more affinity. Right?

 

Linda Garrison: (14:07)

Okay. So here’s some simple ways that you can build awareness about planned giving without having to higher say a plan giving officer or whatever. Okay. Be sure to include planned giving information. Any donor facing communication, it can just be, um, just the one line. Right? Um, [inaudible] we can also, um, it could basic plan giving information on your websites giving page. I’m surprised how many nonprofits that do not do this. Okay. Response Devices. Um hmm. You know, we included that planned gift. Okay. Mention in those. Now a simple plan giving survey is actually a great tool because it can. Go out through theres only five questions. I’ll show you an example, on the next slide, but it can help shake out people who have already, ah, put you in their estate plans. Yes. Or the people who might be interesting. Okay. Also just ask them if you’re on a one on one with a donor. If your organization happens to be in their estate plan. Ah. And as you were finding about bequests, track those, keep track of them. Once you have more than 25 or so, people consider launching a legacy society to honor these donors. Okay. And here’s the one line that you should include in any response device or donor facing communication. Just easy as that. Have you considered including the name of your nonprofit in your estate plans?

 

Linda Garrison: (15:58)

So this im aware, yeah, really small. For a PowerPoint slide. But this is okay. Just basically the questions that you can ask, um, and ask people to fill out. And if you don’t have MailChimp or survey monkey or one of those, you can actually set up a survey for free using Google sheets. Okay. So I would recommend that you do this because you’re going to find out some things that you might not have realized and some people may raise their hand and say, yeah, I am interested in this. Please. You know, let me get ahold of you.

 

Linda Garrison: (16:44)

Okay. Now, I know this is a little bit depressing, but ah, we are all getting older, right? So keep in mind, you’re going to have much easier time realizing and a state intention from an 80 year old than somebody who is 45 now, I’m not trying to be morbid. Um, okay. You shouldn’t ignore your middle age folks, nor should you the hovering around your seniors like a vulture. Just realize that when it comes to actually getting that planned gift, um, you’re going to have better luck, um, with the older folks in your database. Okay. Now let’s dig in about going a little bit deeper and using the magic, okay. RFM. Yeah. To find your best planned giving prospects. Okay.

 

Linda Garrison: (17:45)

Okay. So RFM simply stands for recency frequency and money. This screenshot is, yeah, actually taken from an actual major donors record from DonorSearch, and you can see that they’re total RFM is greater than 224which means they’re a great planned giving prospect. Now you’ll see recency, frequency, and money, right? Each can have a highest score of a hundred. So you’re perfect prospect would be scored at about 300. But again, anybody who’s got 225 plus is much more likely to one give again and two make a plan to give to your organization. Okay, so you, um, can segment using your screening results. Obviously DonorSearch includes RFM, but if you’ve got a really large database, take advantage of the vendor ratings that you’ve gotten back from your vendors. For instance, DonorSearches, DF score, okay. You want to cross tab that by capacity information and then.

 

Linda Garrison: (19:03)

Add on your RFM scores to break that down. Now here are some steps if you don’t have the ability. To have RFM. Uh, from your data vendor. You can actually tell calculate this on your own. And it’s a little bit tedious at first, but it’s very helpful once you’re done, so follow these steps and obviously you’re going to want to get your data into excel. You’re going to want to limit to the last five years of giving. Then you’re going to divide the total by five and this is going to give you a group of five quintiles are one fifth of the file. Now anybody who has given the most recently should be designated as very high and you want to get down to the very bottom one fifth and you want to call them very low so they are much less likely to give again or to make a planned gift. Then you can do this for frequency. You want to exclude pledge payments, monthly credit card payments and other anomalies. And then you want to repeat those steps for money and that would be total giving to you over five years. Then you can come up and figure out your RFM score.

 

Linda Garrison: (20:35)

Oops, I went backwards twice. I am so sorry. Bubble fingers. Then you can cross tab between rfms in that capacity. So sure, if you are going to do do this, you should exclude any existing planned givers from the account because you want to find the people who are more likely to make a plan gift. But who haven’t yet. So here’s going to be your ask range by wealth. If you’re using a DonorSearch, um, and you’re, you’ve got your RFM and you’ll see that. The people in the upper ask brackets with high and very high should be assigned to a gift officer, right? And then the rest of these folks between very high, high and medium, despite their ask range, should be on the receiving end of some informational bequest marketing materials, um, to help them get their heads in a place where they understand the impact that they could make with a legacy gift. Now if you want to drill down even further and totally geek out, you can segment by the DF score and the RFM very high and high. So maybe you’ve got 27 people who are, uh, DS1’s. You’ve got seven of them who are very high and 20 who are high. These would be the people you would want to focus on first, right? And you just go on down the line with various ask amounts.

 

Linda Garrison: (22:13)

Now finally, um, if that’s not enough, um, if you’re brand new to DonorSearch or if you’re thinking about shopping around for a data vendor, I just wanted to provide you with a few tips to find the best one, especially if you’re working with, okay, a partner with integration, they know about their product but sometimes they don’t know as much about, um, the data product. So here’s some tips that you can, okay. Kind of questions you can ask, um, when you’re shopping around. So you know, what data sources do you use? Is the data curated, always ask about security. And you also want to ask if they participate in a data co-op because some vendors do and they ingest your data and if you haven’t signed an agreement for that, um, that could be problematic. Right? Um, when did you recalibrate your scores last? What’s the typical match rate? In other words, how many people are able to be sound and how we get the scores back into our donor database or CRM. This is also very silly, but very true. before you upload your data for screening, honest to goodness. Run, spell check. I’m serious. You would be surprised.

 

Linda Garrison: (23:51)

make sure all the data is in the correct fields and columns according to your vendors template. Yeah, be sure to include that giving information because that will also go into some of the calculations for the scores at the ratings. Uh, try to have residential addresses if at all possible. Okay. And you want to exclude foreign addresses and you don’t screen corporations or foundations unless somebody has a family foundation or a Daf. And you can include that as another attribute. Um, because I’m sure that just about all

 

Linda Garrison: (24:34)

data vendors will give you some kind of free columns for attributes to include. So that’s really the simple um, vendor agnostic if you will. Tips, it’s finally before you roll up your sleeves and start jumping into the planned giving segmentation. Take a look at how many, how many staff you’ve got, what you’re capacity is what your budget is and what is your ability to manage the

 

Linda Garrison: (25:07)

type of segmentation that you choose to do. Be Sure. Also to integrate planned giving into all your fundraising messaging. Remember that one little sentence, have you remembered, uh, or have you considered including your organization in your state plans and then make sure that you’re including planned giving information on your website and really anything that is donor facing. All right, so now I’m going to open it up for questions and fire away please.

 

Jay Frost: (25:45)

Wow. Okay, great. Thank you. And you know, Linda, I never told you that about some of the people who were responding. Um, but we do have quite a mix of people here. Um, so we have, just to let you know, uh, let’s see. Uh, we have a one and only, uh, person in the shop. Uh, that’s Rachel and Marcia talked about being, uh, in a young and small shop. Nicole who’s a solo fundraising, uh, Danielle who says she’s one officer in a small shop. Uh, yes, only person in the org. I’m the only one small shop. We’re a small team, et cetera. But we also have some others here and, uh, what they describe as either old nonprofits or 40 year old nonprofit, one place with nine staff and $14 million or 15 people. So kind of a mix of small shops, one person shops a good number and a and uh, some larger, more mature fundraising operations. And we do have some questions so I’ll jump right in. It came in from Chris who asked or had said rather, once we’ve determined who might be interested in planned giving, do you have any tips for removing the awkwardness around specifically asking for a bequest?

 

Linda Garrison: (26:58)

Well, the only awkwardness that there would be would be, uh, maybe a feeling of squeamishness that you as a gift officer,might the feeling, um, most people have need estate plans by the time they have some children. Right. Um, and if not, then, then at least by the time they’re in their late forties or early sixties, so, um, depending on, ah, whether or not, you know, they have children, of course the folks without children are much more likely to be open. To Um, some sort of an estate gift. Um, so you can be, you can bring this up on a regular donor call. Um, there was a school of thought out there that says, you know, ask them for permission to come back and talk to them about a so-called forever gift. Right? So there’s a right now gift which is your annual fund?

 

Linda Garrison: (28:05)

There’s a major gifts too, maybe a campaign, but then there’s that forever gift that once in a lifetime gift and even people of seemingly ordinary means, okay. Can make a very impactful gift at the end of their life. Because for many people, this is, this is kind of an awkward way to put it, but yeah, death is the biggest liquidity event in their whole life, right? So the property is going to be gone, all their material possessions are going to be sold, uh, disposed of, et cetera. Um, so there is the ability for them to, okay, really make an impact. And I think that sort of the way that you should, uh, go about broaching that conversation,

 

Jay Frost: (28:56)

but I can understand this. I’m, I’m sure it did. And, uh, you know, and as we go through these questions, feel free to respond if you want to follow up. But, um, I wonder if maybe sometimes the discomfort with this comes from our own comfort or discomfort with talking about these issues, um, that you run into that?

 

Linda Garrison: (29:17)

Absolutely. Um, people tend to get squeamish, especially Americans were so bad with the whole death and dying thing. Um, we tip toe around it, we kind of pussyfoot around it. And you know, if she’s ever lost anybody close to you, you go back to work, say the next week later and, and people treat you on this, like you have something catching it. Truly, it’s, it’s really pretty sad. We don’t know how to behave around these issues and we don’t see it as a fact of life. So, um, I think it can be actually a refreshing thing to just ask your donor. Um, would you mind letting me know if you have, uh, included, you know, our organization in your estate plans and you’re going to learn a ton just from that one question, right? Um, and it could open up the door to, uh, further conversation, et Cetera, et cetera. So once people make, um, a bequest type gift, they rarely up go back on that.

 

Jay Frost: (30:32)

And isn’t this also true irrespective of wealth that people who, whether they have a great deal of wealth or, or more modest amount of, you know, savings of lifetime savings at that they may not have a will that they may or may not have an estate plan that, that these discussions can be as liberating for the prospective donor as, as for us,

 

Linda Garrison: (30:53)

I would totally agree with that because if anything it might make them think, oh my gosh, I need to, I need to take care of that. I know with my mother’s generation, um, many people were loathed to do any estate planning because they somehow superstitiously felt it was going to jinx them as soon as they got a will together, they were going to keel over. Um, I think most of us are passed that and we would consider it to be prudent and, um, really good planning for anybody who survives us.

 

Jay Frost: (31:30)

Now we have a question from Casey who had asked earlier, uh, about, um, not including, I believe she thought you were not including pledge and monthly payments and frequency. Is that right? And if so, why are they excluded?

 

Linda Garrison: (31:42)

Right? So, um, what you want to do is be tracking, um, the largest gift. So if somebody is made a let’s a $10,000 pledge, um, and they’re paying, I don’t know, $1,000 or $500 a month on that, you would want to pay attention to that $10,000 amount. And I would consider the, um, the recency number to be the date of that pledge. Otherwise that’s going to, um, basically skew the calculations of RFM, uh, quite a bit and it may give them a lot of things, a higher number of recency and frequency, but maybe a lower number of money. So that’s just a, a from the old warhorse here.

 

Jay Frost: (32:39)

Um, we have a question from Kathy who says, is there a way we can look for and find family foundations set up by our prospects?

 

Linda Garrison: (32:40)

Yeah, that’s a great question. I have people ask me that all the time. And in DonorSearch, um, you’ll see that, um, both with the excellent, uh, philanthropic information that they provide, you can sometimes find if a gift has been made through a family foundation, their deaths are a lot harder to find. But actually, uh, in the case of that actual major donor that I referred to, uh, one of the first slides I learned that they have a death through um, uh, community foundation here in Colorado. And I was not aware of that, but it actually showed that they had made a gift to that community foundation to their death. So, um, you can sometimes find that. Yeah. And the other thing is sometimes we’ll be open corporates, um, sometimes that will also show, uh, uh, a family foundation. So, uh, hopefully that will help you a little bit.

 

Jay Frost: (33:53)

And just to add to that in, uh, for those who are not DonorSearch users, I know that, um, candid, which is the new name for foundations that are taking guidestar is, is a source of great foundation information. And there’s also propublica recently a site that’s all searchable by name. So if you do not have, uh, a tool like DonorSearch, but you do have a few minutes, you might want to go and look up the names of some of these people using that propublica tool, which is also free. Um, just a couple of thoughts. Um, we have a question from, uh, let me see. Jennifer, she says, how does RFM fit in with the other data points that are indicative of a person being likely to give a planned gift? Is RFM part of the model you build or is it a separate data point?

 

Linda Garrison: (34:38)

Um, that’s a good question. I would call it a separate data point that is drawing from other data, um, to give you a greater, greater insight into the person’s inclination to give to you. Okay. A, I wouldn’t call it a modern score, uh, but it is certainly, you know, it’s like it’s a calculated score that is drawing on the three factors that help you kind of get a beat on the best people. And that’s why I also said that you can sub segment using, you know, the, um, the DS score. Um, I-wave has a pro score wealth engine has its propensity to give score. So everybody’s got something like that. And you can sub categorize people that way too.

 

Jay Frost: (35:35)

We have a couple of kind of comments that have come in while I’ve been talking. Uh, one is from Bobby who said, I grew up around undertakers, grandfather and uncle. And I share my experience of how setting up your will is the best way to show love to your friends, family, and organizations. I just thought it was a nice thought.

 

Linda Garrison: (35:54)

That’s so, so right on.

 

Jay Frost: (35:57)

And then we have Tanya who wrote a, not a question, but an FYI. We recently received on a member to our estate club who recently took a job out of college and signed her new 401k to our foundation as an estate gift. So just another way of thinking, I guess, about how to welcome people in. Um, we did have a question earlier I think was from Casey about match rates. This is something I know we’ve talked about a lot. Um, with screenings in the past. And I’m wondering what you think, and Casey is asking what you think is a good match rate. Uh, when you’re looking at data and, and especially when you’re thinking about planned giving, what are the kind of numbers that are going to make it possible, whether you’re in a small shop like some of the people here or in a larger place with 15 people to be able to make a plan giving program?

 

Linda Garrison: (36:45)

Well, you know, it depends on the, on the um, vendors that you use, what the match rate. And it also depends on how clean your data is. Um, for instance, if you have, uh, and I’ve seen this with clients, they see that they only have a first name or, or they got first name, last name, no street address, and then city state that is going automatically kick that person out because there’s not enough data to definitively match them to the data points. Right? So that’s why I say do silly things like run, spell check, and check those addresses and, and take out the, um, foreign addresses, et cetera. You don’t want to pay for unmatched records. Um, that said, again, depending on the vendor, um, I would say 75 to 80% is a respectable match rate, but I like to see even higher. So I didn’t know what, um, DonorSearch typical match rate is. But in my experience it’s pretty high.

 

Jay Frost: (37:53)

Yeah. Well it seems like it’s, uh, you know, compared to the early days of screening when you had small percentages today that numbers are high, but, but I guess it depends on the data characteristics doesn’t it? Because some things, there’s a lot of data, the state, some things, there’s obviously much less solid securities data for one example. Exactly.

 

Linda Garrison: (38:10)

Yes, exactly. And that’s a, that’s an excellent point because somebody can have a stock in a private company and that’s not going to come up. And, and as I remind my clients all the time, you could have a stock portfolio, you know, maybe it’s a mutual funds maybe, you’re investing in companies on your own, et cetera. Um, and it could be sizeable, but if you’re not that 10% or more quote beneficial holder in a publicly traded company, we’re not going to be able to find it. Right. So that’s why a lot of times things like the DF score, uh, or the, um, excuse me, like the, uh, ask amount the target, ask amount is going to be on the low side,

 

Jay Frost: (39:00)

right. because it’s looking at one data point that may be just their, their property to the place they’re living. Yeah,

 

Linda Garrison: (39:05)

exactly.

 

Jay Frost: (39:07)

Now we have a comment from Wendy, which is something I wanted to ask. This is such a great question, Wendy. It says with gift segmentation work I’ve had gift officers ask me to exclude anyone under the age of 65. This seems like we’re missing a lot of great potential to have this conversation with fairly high affinity donors. Is it ever too early to talk about planned giving with donors?

 

Linda Garrison: (39:30)

No. Heavens no. Um, I mean, if somebodys 18 maybe, right. But if you’re talking about, um, a well-qualified, uh, individual who you know, has some assets, um, and especially if they meet some of those other criteria, EEG, um, childless widowed, etc. Of course you’re going to want to have that conversation with them. Um, there’s nothing saying that you or I could walk out the door and not be struck by a bus, God forbid. Um, so, you know, just relying on that age 65 plus is a big mistake. There’s another reason why I think it’s a big mistake. Most people have already got their estate plan settled, um, and they’re probably not going to change them up to, uh, you know, include your organization in their estate. That’s just, I think that’s a little, uh, presumptuous. And I think that goes back to cognitive, uh, cognitive bias again. Yeah.

 

Jay Frost: (40:43)

Yeah. It’s funny because some of this was baked into past models about giving and Robert sharp the firm that you work with in the past and one of your incarnations, uh, throughout your work history. I remember we talked about the flow model, which I can’t remember what it stands for, but it’s something like I know the last two, the o and the w stood for older women and uh, which, you know, I don’t think we’d ever say that anymore, at least I hope not. But the idea that they have to be women over the age of 70, whichspouses, um, it seems to be a way that, you know, you potentially exclude people who might be thinking about settling their will when they have their first child or when they close out their first business or when they their parents after their parents die. All these moments where we have to make a big life decision that we might think about what’s, what’s meaningful to us. That actually brings up a question that Brentley just asked, which is to expand on this last question, Brantley says, how much do you value of being first in to an estate plan? Which I think Brantley means by that I hope I’m right. Brentley is, uh, if you’re talking to somebody about setting their willow, selling it, their estate plan, you’re the first one mentioned, is that, is it better to be first in line?

 

Linda Garrison: (41:56)

What do you think? Not to be, but it just, I think it’s great to be first in line because the odds are you’re going to get a bigger piece of the pie. Right? It’s pretty rare that somebody leaves their entire estate to one organization, although it, it’s been done. Um, but yeah, first in I think is great,

 

Jay Frost: (42:26)

but it does, but it brings up something that I know we haven’t had a chance to talk a lot about today, but I’m curious about your thoughts. So let’s say you’ve identified the right population because you’ve used good analytics and then you’ve approached this, the right way inviting people in, some of them first in. And um, but then there’s the process of keeping them there because of course, thankfully we’re all living longer. So you might bring in a person or in their fifties or sixties or maybe they’re in that more traditional seventies but they might live to be 95 or a hundred. There are people that stay there. We’re going to live to be 120 if you think you’re one of those people, feel free to write that in the chat box or the questions. But when it doesn’t, what is it? What is it incumbent upon us then to do, in order to not just get them in there but make sure we’re treating in a way we should as people who could theoretically, unless it’s irrevocably remove us from the will. Even if were first in.

 

Linda Garrison: (43:24)

Absolutely. And you know, what is the worst thing that you can do, um, as a development officer or an executive director is to not love on your donors. And what I mean by that is appreciate them. Tell them that you appreciate them, cultivate them even after they’ve made that estate gift. It’s not one and done right. Because as Jay said, they could get teed off and writes you out. You want to show them how grateful you are to them. And that’s why having a legacy society can be a good thing too, because it not only gets their name out there publicly. So there’s a little bit of a stigma about them backing off, but, um, you know, with Honoring them and I think that’s really what it’s all about is just, you know, keep them close. That’s what you gotta do.

 

Jay Frost: (44:31)

And I guess

 

Jay Frost: (44:32)

there’s also the community of interest that’s built. So there’s a way to show that alone, uh, in making that commitment, which is pretty extraordinary commitment. Linda, do you have a, um, a page with your contact information so people can get? I do. And I welcome any, um, any kind of, uh, questions you might have, uh, et Cetera, et cetera. As Jay said, this deck will be going out to you in the next several days. Um, I’m here in a suburb of Denver, Colorado, so in mountain time. So please don’t call me at 6:00 AM in the morning or you might get something groggy on the other end of the phone, but I’m happy to talk. You can see my website and my, uh, down at the bottom. So thank you guys. And um, I appreciate having the time to talk with you.

 

Jay Frost: (45:28)

Oh well we, we thank you very much for coming in and presenting today, Linda and hopefully we can have you back soon. I know there have been a couple other questions since we started the conclusion of today’s program, but we’ll forward those to you. So if you’ve written something that those will go to her so she can respond to you. If you have any other questions now that come to mind, feel free to write them down. We’ll make sure that we pass those along. Um, and as Linda just said, ah, this content will be coming to you through your email, the slide deck, but all the other things she just said, all the things she shared, all the answers to all these questions that will all be in the recording. And once again, you can go and find that at donorsearch.net under the resources tab. And there you’ll find a flash classes and the flash class libraries right there. So this session will be posted there to share with your colleagues I and uh, in the next couple of days. So be on the lookout for that. We want to give our thanks once again to Linda Garrison for presenting today. Thank you Linda.

 

Linda Garrison: (46:24)

Thank you. My pleasure.

 

Jay Frost: (46:26)

And I want to thank all of you for being here. Um, and I want to encourage you to come back tomorrow when our friend Scott who was recently appointed managing director at changing our world, uh, who will be presenting on board members gone wild, raining and the roads great title Scott. That’s at 3:00 PM tomorrow eastern. So be on the lookout for that. Come join us. I also want to give our thanks once again to DonorSearch, uh, who provides us this platform. We rarely talk so much about it. Linda was kind enough to mention it today, but, uh, you can learn more about DonorSearch if you want to at donorsearch.net, uh, where you can also see all this flash classes, et cetera. But DonorSearch provides this as a platform to bring in people like Linda and all these other leaders, these 200 people who have come and spoken in the last couple of years. We’re very grateful for providing that service to all of us in the community. And of course to Terrance Diggs our producer who’s sitting there quietly in the background, making sure that I don’t make a colossal mistake or at least trying to avoid the, the large number that aren’t making. Of course, this is Jay Frost speaking. I want to thank you for joining us. We’ll see you next time. Until then. Take care.